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Lorelei79
Super Senior Flying Squirrel Butt


Joined: 31 Aug 2009
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Location: Keeping a count of my nuts for the cold season. Oh. Wait. Lady Squirrels don't HAVE nuts!

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know how to drive a bulldozer, backhoe, bucket loader, and stick-shift. All without owning any firearms!
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raja
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good for you...next time somebody stick a gun in you face and demand yo money...run over him wid yo bulldozer
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markfisher
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Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 2151
Location: Guatemala / San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RAJA makes no sense put a gun in my face I give you my anything.

Once the person has a gun in your face best to do as the person says, not worth my life even if I had a gun. I would rather lose my stuff then my life or kill someone. Anyway it's only STUFF . AND YES I OWN A GUN. with permet.


Lorelei79 YOU MAKE A LOT OF SENSE. ME AND LOTS OF OTHERS ARE WITH YOU AND YOUR VIEWS. Guns in the wrong hands do kill people.
"MORE GUN CONTROL" Would go a long way to get guns out of the hands of nuts and sick people . Would for sure save a lot of lives. Just my 2 cents

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raja
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: fool Reply with quote

my Grand daddy said "you can always tell a fool, just can't tell em much"
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markfisher
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Location: Guatemala / San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RAJA

ALSO MY THOUGHTS

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
-- President Dwight D. Eisenhower"

"you can always tell a fool, just can't tell em much"

RAJA:

WILL NEVER GIVE UP ON YOU JUST TRYING TO ENLIGHTEN YOU . Every day some one kills with a hand gun in error. How do we end that?

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Fretless
Super Senior River Rat


Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 1048

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

markfisher wrote:
RAJA

ALSO MY THOUGHTS

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
-- President Dwight D. Eisenhower"


What Eisenhower was referring to (and warning about) was the emergence and growth of the Military Industrial Complex, not weapons in general.

markfisher wrote:
Every day some one kills with a hand gun in error. How do we end that?



There is only one absolute, sure-fire way to end people killing other people.

Eliminate people
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Riggerman
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Joined: 26 Aug 2012
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Location: Rio Dulce

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to do some research comparing Canada and US in regards of guns. Here are some interesting facts. Yes the US has more guns over all, but and there is a but. Interestingly enough per capita the numbers are very similar. by this I mean the US has approximately 350,000,000 guns but hey are owned by only about 40% of the populations, this mean that those households have multiple guns, some of them putting to shame some countries armies. I know such a guy near Olympia Washington. everything from hands guns to 50 caliber machine gun to M-71 rocket launcher, grenades. You name it He has it. He is a Vietnam veterans and his reasoning is, He is waiting for doom's day. I love Him, but frankly He has a few birds on His antenna.
On the Canadian side, about 36% of households have guns. So you see this is almost the same percentage per capita in regards to who owns guns. so to say that Canadians have no guns, is not quite true. But the similarity ends there. In the US almost any type of guns can be obtain either on a dealer license, or a collectors license, that are way to easily obtained.
In Canada close to 4 millions. 85% of the guns are for hunting reasons only, long barrels, and a 5 clip magazine. after all if you need more then 5 shot to bring down a moose, then you should be a vegetarian. as in the language of the Iroquois vegetarian means lousy hunter LOL.

But the main difference is in the attitude towards guns. Canadians see it as a tool, a way to provide food. since only 20% of Canada is considered densely populated, and I use the term "densely" widely. The other 80% is still fairly wide open with lots of games to be had. So the main understanding are that guns are for food not killing people.
In the US the main reason for obtaining guns is for safety. I.E. protection against people. Thus primarily obtained in the event that it is needed to kill or harm people.
Also there is the militaristic attitude. Canada since WWII has been involved in very few military deployment mainly to protect minorities, Kosovo, Somalia, Afghanistan, Cyprus, Korea, and such. Where the US on the other hand, has been involved in over 80 wars, most of them for regime change, all over the world, Guatemala, Honduras Nicaragua, Iraq, Libya, Vietnam, the list is too long. So the idea to use a gun to get what you want from other people is ingrained in the US mentality in the sense that if you do not like a countries leader, well lets just kill him. There is also the fact that if there is oil, it is fair game, lets start a war, and then get Halliburton to rebuild it and take control. Lets depose Ńrbenz, and put in Armas, take all the land and give it to the United Fruit Company. That attitude repeats itself over and over again. So in conclusion 2 countries both with 35% of the populations owning guns, but for two different purposes with two different attitude. So for those that say people kill people, it is not the fault of the gun. I agree 100%, but if a teenager cannot handle a car properly, we teach them some more, and more until he some what master the control of the car. Guns should be the same, only given when understand the ramification of owning a gun, use it as a tool, not as an instrument of revenge, or intimidation and certainly not as a way to kill 60 people in 12 minutes. There is nothing wrong with guns, people are the problem.
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raja
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: give up your guns Reply with quote

they made the Aussies give up their guns..and GUESS WHAT HAPPENED!!
Just a refresher in case you missed it the first time around!
Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts ... from Ed Chenel, a police officer in Australia Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under. It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now in:
* Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent ...
* Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent ...
* Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns ...'
You won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.
The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note Americans, before it's too late!
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dennysbeach
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Joined: 22 Oct 2009
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Location: lake isabal

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Check out the snopes page where Raja probably got the statustics guven by one cop.
There is still room for argument but you should read the whole page to get a more complete idea of what has been happening.

Who do you believe is the question.

All I can say as a Canuck is that we take our proplems outside to the parking lot and resolve our differences in a different manner with our fists. When the other guy is down we help him up and the problem is solved.
It is incredibly rare to hear of shoot-outs, etc. that are now almost a daily occurance in the states.
By the way the result will be a bullet in your ass here most of the time also. I have never witnessed a fist-fight in Guatemala.
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elpolvo
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Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 3951
Location: rio grande y rio dulce

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dennysbeach wrote:
I have never witnessed a fist-fight in Guatemala.

you've never ridden the first-class bus. Laughing
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Riggerman
Super Senior River Rat


Joined: 26 Aug 2012
Posts: 274
Location: Rio Dulce

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure where your data comes from Raja. but after a little research the number I see do not correspond at all with your statement.. I do not know how to post an image that shows the graph of gun incident declining after the gun reform. But it is down, way down, waywayway down not up.

[img]http://image_url[/img] (alt+p)



[/img]
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raja
Super Senior River Rat


Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject: guns don't kill people...people kill people Reply with quote

October 05th, 2015

By Justin King

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Handgun

Dan Cartwright, co-owner of TDS Guns, places a semi-automatic pistol on display at his store in Rocklin, Calif., Friday, July 27, 2012. .(AP Photo/Rich Pedroncelli)

(TFC) Washington, DC Ė A church was shot up by a lunatic. The US government never lets a tragedy or crisis pass without attempting to find a new way to restrict the American people. So, we can expect a renewed push for gun control. There is a lot of propaganda about gun control. So much so that the truth has been lost.

The National Rifle Association (NRA) would have you believe that guns stop murders. The gun control lobby would have you believe that gun control reduces murders. They are both wrong. Gun bans have always had the same effect once implemented: none. They do not create a (sustained) period of increased murders, nor do they reduce the rate of homicides. The gun control crowd is currently stomping their feet and screaming ďNo, it reduces violence! Iíve seen the statistics.Ē What you probably saw were studies that point to reduced instances of ďgun murders,Ē not murder. The pro-gun crowd is screaming that gun bans cause crime. At least this is grounded in reality. Typically, there is a spike in murders immediately after a ban, but it is short lived.





Gun control is designed to stop people from killing each other, at least thatís what we are always told. Letís take a look at the data:

United Kingdom: The UK enacted its handgun ban in 1996. From 1990 until the ban was enacted, the homicide rate fluctuated between 10.9 and 13 homicides per million. After the ban was enacted, homicides trended up until they reached a peak of 18.0 in 2003. Since 2003, which incidentally was about the time the British government flooded the country with 20,000 more cops, the homicide rate has fallen to 11.1 in 2010. In other words, the 15-year experiment in a handgun ban has achieved absolutely nothing.

Ireland: Ireland banned firearms in 1972. Irelandís homicide rate was fairly static going all the way back to 1945. In that period, it fluctuated between 0.1 and 0.6 per 100,000 people. Immediately after the ban, the murder rate shot up to 1.6 per 100,000 people in 1975. It then dropped back down to 0.4. It has trended up, reaching 1.4 in 2007.

Australia: Australia enacted its gun ban in 1996. Murders have basically run flat, seeing only a small spike after the ban and then returning almost immediately to preban numbers. It is currently trending down, but is within the fluctuations exhibited in other nations.

Plain and simple. Gun control has no significant impact on murder rates. Removing firearms does not typically create massive lawlessness. It is a moot point. These figures arenít a secret. Why would the governments of these nations want a disarmed populace? For the answer, it is best to look at a nation that has had long-time gun bans that is currently relaxing their laws. Russia recently relaxed its firearms laws. For the first time in recent memory, a Russian citizen can carry a firearm. The prohibited items speak volumes about what a governmentís motive behind disarming the population is. Russia has allowed ďsmoothbore long barrelled guns, pistols, revolvers, and other firearms, as well as Tasers, and devices equipped with teargas.Ē Thatís almost everything, what is still banned? Rifles. So the Russian government has made it clear that the real objective is to remove rifles from civilian hands. The reasoning is pretty clear: you need rifles to overthrow a government.


The Real Reason Gun Control Will Never Work:

Poverty has a greater correlation to violent crime than access to firearms. Education and poverty are directly linked. In short, we donít have a gun problem in the United States, we have a cultural problem.Home Depot. Most people in the gun control lobby know nothing about firearms or their construction. Everything you need to manufacture firearms is available at Home Depot. The materials needed to manufacture a 12 gauge shotgun cost about $20. If someone wanted to build a fully automatic Mac-10 style submachine gun, it would probably cost about $60. Every electrician, plumber, and handyman in the country has the materials necessary to manufacture firearms in their shop. The items are completely unregulated. They arenít like the chemicals necessary to manufacture methamphetamines. How is the battle against that black market working out?

We have a society that panders to the basest desires and instincts. One of those is violence. We live in a society where women are given dirty looks for breastfeeding in a restaurant, while over their heads on the wall-mounted television plays a movie that graphically depicts someone being tortured to death. We are desensitized to violence, and we have a generation of people that do not have the coping skills necessary to deal with reality.

Firearms are the Pandoraís Box of the United States. The box is open, it canít be closed through legislation. If you want to change society, you have to actually change the whole of society. You canít blame an inanimate object thatís availability has absolutely no correlation to murder and expect to end violence.
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Riggerman
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you that the problem is society, and attitude. The mere fact that one as no respect for life is the main culprit.
Even the first murder if you believe the bible did not involved a gun. but it is definitely harder to go on a mass murder rampage with a rock, then it is with 40 fully automatic converted guns. And that is the point. Mass murder !!!!!
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raja
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject: gun sales Reply with quote

according to what i have read, and what i hear from gun shop owners, Barrack Obama did more for national gun sales than any one person in history! AND if you do some checking, you will find that the most murders by guns are taking place in Democratic run cities across the country. the people that voted for Trump for the most part don't live in cities and don't have gun problems.
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Riggerman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW I am talking about mass murder, people dying, lives lost and the toll on humanity. And yet it gets turned into Democrats versus Republicans. Yup definitely an attitude issue somewhere. Politic is more important then saving lives. Sad very sad.
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