Rio Dulce Chisme Vindicator

Captain John · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:34 am Post subject:

Mark,

I did not watch the video and really don't know anything about the "guy" or his beliefs. I did look at the Power Point presentations from the meeting of the Portland Chapter of the American Meteorological Society which from the credentials presented I would consider to be a non-biased scientific body. I found the presentations to be somewhat convincing that there is no significant evidence to show that the climate change we are currently experiencing is resulting from human activity.

The graphs presented show pretty clearly that the current climate activity is consistent with historical patterns when you look at a broader picture and not restrict your view to a small segment of time. They also demonstrate that there are much larger systems involved in climate than what humans introduce and those systems overwhelm that of human activity.

In other words. we (the human race) are fairly insignificant within the whole realm of things no matter how big your head might become.

I know I use a lot of big words that you may find difficult to understand but it probably doesn't matter because the three functioning brain cells you do have are working on overload and cannot accept any further input anyway.
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I have been asked...what do you old folks do now that you're retired? Well..I'm fortunate to have a chemical engineering background, and one of the things I enjoy most is turning beer, wine, Scotch , and margaritas into urine.

XIsle · Guest

The Earth's atmosphere is a thin layer of gases that surrounds the Earth. It composed of 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 0.9% argon, 0.03% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases. This thin gaseous layer insulates the Earth from extreme temperatures; it keeps heat inside the atmosphere and it also blocks the Earth from much of the Sun's incoming ultraviolet radiation. From: http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/planets/earth/Atmosphere.shtml

According to Wikipedia the 2010 World total of carbon emissions is: global total. World, 29888121 THOUSAND METRIC TONS or 29,888,121,000 Metric Tons for 2010 and growing annually. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions To believe that this 30 Billion Metric Tons of CO2 annually will not affect the 0.03% of CO2 in the atmosphere is well, like not thinking at all.

In the early 1960s, C.D. Keeling measured the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere: it was rising fast. Researchers began to take an interest, struggling to understand how the level of carbon dioxide had changed in the past, and how the level was influenced by chemical and biological forces. They found that the gas plays a crucial role in climate change, so that the rising level could gravely affect our future. (This essay covers only developments relating directly to carbon dioxide, with a separate essay for Other Greenhouse Gases. Theories are discussed in the essay on Simple Models of Climate. from: http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm

And of course one of my favorite lines from Bob Dylan's 'The Boxer': "Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

dongato · Guest

George Carlin on Global Warming

Captain John · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject:

XIsle,

Did you look at the presentations that I referenced?

If you want to disagree then show some SCIENCE that refutes those presentations. Yes there is a thin layer of mixed gases and carbon dioxide is a part of that mix. But if you look at the data you see that there are times in history that carbon dioxide levels have been much higher than now or are projected to be. You should also look at the data that discusses the effect of water vapor on the warming / cooling cycle as well as the carbon dioxide cycle. There are also a number of other cyclic systems that are far more powerful than the amount of carbon that humans emit into the atmosphere. Look at the effect of some recent (last 2000 years) of volcanic eruptions on the carbon dioxide levels.

I am not saying that humans don't have an effect on the environment they live in. Every living creature creates an effect on its environment and sometimes it even eliminates itself. What I am saying and what I am seeing from the data is that at this point in time the verdict is still out on just how much effect humans are having on climate change because it looks from the data that it could be just part of the same cycle that has been going on for thousands of years.

Re:

Captain John · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:17 pm Post subject:

Gato,

George Carlin is probably one of the greatest masters of communication that ever lived. I have seen that one before but it's always a treat to see him again.

Thanks
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I have been asked...what do you old folks do now that you're retired? Well..I'm fortunate to have a chemical engineering background, and one of the things I enjoy most is turning beer, wine, Scotch , and margaritas into urine.

Captain John · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject:

XIsle:

I looked at the links you provide. The last one shows most of the same graphic data that is discussed in the presentations that I reference. As demonstrated in the presentations, that data takes a small window of time that does not show the big picture.

If you saw a cats tail through a slot in a fence you might thing the animal on the other side was a just the tail. However if you moved closer to the slot so that you see the entire cat you would have a totally different idea of what a cat was. look at ALL the data, not just a small segment.

Then watch George Carlin Laughing

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I have been asked...what do you old folks do now that you're retired? Well..I'm fortunate to have a chemical engineering background, and one of the things I enjoy most is turning beer, wine, Scotch , and margaritas into urine.

XIsle · Guest

Capt John-

I did not write that I disagree with you or anything in the post you made. I simply posted three items. Two factual, composition of the atmosphere and amount of CO2 emitted world wide with source reference. The third bit was somewhat of the opinion nature, but I supported with the source to show more information.

You nor I have ALL the science on global warming or not warming, whatever climate change is or is not taking place. Even if we did have ALL the science I doubt it could digested or comprehended by either of us. Even the climate scientist (who one would presume have access to ALL the data) do not agree, but from where I sit, there is a clear consensus of the majority with a minority of descent on climate change.

In these type discussions, one can state that one, let's say, watched "The Inconvenient Truth" the Al Gore documentary on climate change and use that science and data to support one's beliefs. That would be as valid as any other source including, budmans and yours.

I was trying to make a point of 30 billion metric tons of CO2 going into the air annually. That ain't no small number. I personally believe that 30 billion metric tons per year will in time ( the operative word here is time, just how much is the question) will have an effect. I grant you and all, that there are other factors involved from solar flares, cosmic radiation, volcanic eruptions, to natural decay and more. Ice core samples support the natural cycles. However, 30 billion metric tons per year for say X number of years will be added to the total accumulative effect of any natural cycle. Also, CO2 is not the only thing that modern man is spewing out, there is more, much more. Plenty of it not of this world, being man made --- not found naturally before being introduced by man, like plastics for one.

Relevant Quotes

Religion provides the means for the ignorant to declare with absolute certainty that they know the unknowable.

True wisdom is knowing how little we know for certain

"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." Andre Gide:

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. --Galileo Galileo

I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know. -- Mark Twain

Inconsistent Truth

X

dongato · Guest

Captn John said........

dongato · Guest

budman · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject:

Don Gato--if you watch the power point, you will discover that Antartica is actually getting more ice, not less.

I love the fact that Xisle quoted Galileo. He was imprisoned because he claimed the earth went around the sun. All the "real" scientists of the day, a clear majority, knew he was wrong.

I think Al Gore did to the science of climatology what the OJ verdict did to criminal law. They were both incredibly disastrous aberrations that retarded previous advancements by a generation or so.

Don't be afraid of the video guys. It is only a presentation of numbers that you can easily verify. It won't bite you.
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Fair winds for all

dongato · Guest

OK how bout a tropical Anchorage in Greenland or Iceland.

Fretless · Super Senior River Rat Joined: 15 Nov 2009 Posts: 560

budman · Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:07 am Post subject:

Clearly, we have an obligation to be good stewards of our earth, both for ourselves and our future generations. However, we also have a duty to carefully and objectively determine prudent courses of action so that we do not waste our finite resources tilting at windmills in this noble endeavor.

I view Al Gore and his ilk as an expensive and unproductive distraction on this journey.
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Fair winds for all

dongato · Guest

Fretless wrote..............